Help With 2-Part Invention in Bb

[fuel925]

One of my exam pieces for Grade 6 VCM is Bach's 2-Part Invention in Bb. I can play it fine, and at speed, but the only niggling thing now is that in bars 14 15 and 16 where there is constant semiquavers and demisemiquavers in both hands, I have a bit of trouble getting these notes completely together, i.e the notes on both hands have to come exactly together. I find it difficult to get this perfect, especially at speed. Can you provide any tips that could help me with this?

Thanks!

[richard w]

This is a wonderful little piece isn't it. It is also very interesting to see how Bach develops the thematic material, for instance by using inversion.

As for the difficulties you are having co-ordinating the hands, make sure first that the rhythm is absolutely spot on in both hands when you play separately. You might find that your left hand just doesn't command the 'poise' that your right hand can so you will need to work at achieving parity. Then, if you still have difficulty together, take small sections and perfect, then slowly string the sections together, all the time attending to the results you are getting. Half of the skill is to simply not accept your playing if it does not sound well co-ordinated. Playing through as it is will simply ingrain a bad way of playing.

If you still have trouble, practising using different rhythms can often be a powerful tool, and you might also find the 'parallel sets' exercises which are described in CC Chang's book useful.

Let us know how the practise goes, and how the exam goes, too.



Richard.

[BoliverAllmon]

I just finished learning this wonderful piece. I agree that those measures did tend to give the most trouble. Play real slowly at first and make sure to stay legato. Notice where you are having the difficulties (which notes and all) and work just there. Don't change the fingering. You should be using alot of 3,4,5 in the LH. If you do change the fingering then you kinda defeat the purpose of the piece.

boliver

[bernhard]

1.   Practise with hands separate. When joining hands, use the maximum speed you achieved with your slowest hand (usually the left). If this speed is too slow, the way to push the speed is not to do it with hands together, but with hands separate. You will always be able to play faster with hands separate than with hands together, so by increasing the speed of your hands separate, you will automatically increase the hands together speed. (the Chang book that Richard W suggested above will describe this in great detail).

2.   The main difficulty in the bars you mentioned are the jumps between figurations. One (or both) of your hands may be hesitating minimally at such jumps. This may be completely unconscious, so you don’t notice it. If that is the case, here is one way to deal with it (it is a good idea to do this anyway). Practise the passages that are giving you trouble (both HT and HS) by deleting the demisemiquavers figurations and practising just the outline below:



Once you can do this with confidence (practise not in order to get it right, but in order to never get it wrong), put the demisemiquavers back in. It is very important that you do not change the fingering, that is, keep using in the outline exactly the same fingerings you will be using in the original version.

3.   Finally a word about fingering. Bach rarely specified fingering. He certainly did not specify fingerings for this piece. So any fingerings you come across are editorial additions, in no way authoritative or binding. Treat them as well-meaning suggestions. Use them if they fit your physicality and make the playing of the passage easy. Otherwise, change them. The only thing that can defeat the purpose of a piece of music is labouring under an inappropriate fingering (I myself use 234 on both  hands throughout this passage, but 123 can be used as well). So choose the fingering that will allow you the greatest ease and comfort in playing.

I hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[fuel925]

This is a wonderful little piece isn't it. It is also very interesting to see how Bach develops the thematic material, for instance by using inversion.

As for the difficulties you are having co-ordinating the hands, make sure first that the rhythm is absolutely spot on in both hands when you play separately. You might find that your left hand just doesn't command the 'poise' that your right hand can so you will need to work at achieving parity. Then, if you still have difficulty together, take small sections and perfect, then slowly string the sections together, all the time attending to the results you are getting. Half of the skill is to simply not accept your playing if it does not sound well co-ordinated. Playing through as it is will simply ingrain a bad way of playing.

If you still have trouble, practising using different rhythms can often be a powerful tool, and you might also find the 'parallel sets' exercises which are described in CC Chang's book useful.

Let us know how the practise goes, and how the exam goes, too.



Richard.

Hello,
It did occur to me to just leave it as I was playing it, as im pretty sure I could get away with it at the exam. My next thought was why should I play less than im capable? You are correct in saying that just leaving it be will ingrain a bad style of playing, and this is something I definitly do not want. The rest of the piece is satisfactory, so ive got a couple of months to really hammer these few bars. I will take your advice about playing HS, and breaking it down into smaller sections.

[fuel925]

I just finished learning this wonderful piece. I agree that those measures did tend to give the most trouble. Play real slowly at first and make sure to stay legato. Notice where you are having the difficulties (which notes and all) and work just there. Don't change the fingering. You should be using alot of 3,4,5 in the LH. If you do change the fingering then you kinda defeat the purpose of the piece.

boliver

Your comment regarding noting which particular notes are giving me difficulties is well-founded, and something I will take into consideration when I practise again in about 10 minutes. I don't agree however with what you say about changing the fingering. I did change one example of fingering, from using 3-4-5 to using 2-3-4, which i've found has helped a lot. I did ensure that this new fingering didnt interfere with the flow of the piece.

[fuel925]

1.   Practise with hands separate. When joining hands, use the maximum speed you achieved with your slowest hand (usually the left). If this speed is too slow, the way to push the speed is not to do it with hands together, but with hands separate. You will always be able to play faster with hands separate than with hands together, so by increasing the speed of your hands separate, you will automatically increase the hands together speed. (the Chang book that Richard W suggested above will describe this in great detail).

2.   The main difficulty in the bars you mentioned are the jumps between figurations. One (or both) of your hands may be hesitating minimally at such jumps. This may be completely unconscious, so you don’t notice it. If that is the case, here is one way to deal with it (it is a good idea to do this anyway). Practise the passages that are giving you trouble (both HT and HS) by deleting the demisemiquavers figurations and practising just the outline below:



Once you can do this with confidence (practise not in order to get it right, but in order to never get it wrong), put the demisemiquavers back in. It is very important that you do not change the fingering, that is, keep using in the outline exactly the same fingerings you will be using in the original version.

3.   Finally a word about fingering. Bach rarely specified fingering. He certainly did not specify fingerings for this piece. So any fingerings you come across are editorial additions, in no way authoritative or binding. Treat them as well-meaning suggestions. Use them if they fit your physicality and make the playing of the passage easy. Otherwise, change them. The only thing that can defeat the purpose of a piece of music is labouring under an inappropriate fingering (I myself use 234 on both  hands throughout this passage, but 123 can be used as well). So choose the fingering that will allow you the greatest ease and comfort in playing.

I hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Again, sound advice, and a very helpful diagram! I feel much better equiped now to deal with this section of the piece.

Thanks for everyone's input

[BoliverAllmon]

Your comment regarding noting which particular notes are giving me difficulties is well-founded, and something I will take into consideration when I practise again in about 10 minutes. I don't agree however with what you say about changing the fingering. I did change one example of fingering, from using 3-4-5 to using 2-3-4, which i've found has helped a lot. I did ensure that this new fingering didnt interfere with the flow of the piece.

I guess 2,3,4 is ok. I just think of these pieces as little contrapuntal etudes and this specific one works the 345 fingers alot. Just food for thought. I am glad that you aren't settling for mediocraty (or whatever the spelling is).

boliver